What the Thune Amdendment really means
Small mountains of ink, electrons and hot air have been expended talking about the so-called Thune Amendment, which would have liberalized conceal carry reciprocity.
The amendment to a Defense Department bill received a majority of votes, 58-39, however it failed to gain the necessary 60 votes needed to override a threatened filibuster by arch anti-gunner Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY).
While the amendment itself may have been pro-gun, the shenanigans surrounding the vote should cause many gun rights activist to pause.
There is ample evidence to suggest that this vote was orchestrated by Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and Thune merely to give Republicans and vulnerable Dems a “pro-gun vote” going into August recess and the upcoming election.
In short, everyone knew that this amendment would fail. It was only brought forward as a pre-election stunt to buy a handful of Senator street-cred with gun voters.
From the Charlotte Gun Rights Examiner:
Laudable though Thune’s goal of national concealed carry may be, however, understand that the entire exercise was nothing but a sham in which (surprise, surprise) the amendment failed by a vote of 58 – 39. So before gun rights supporters contact the 58 ever-so-brave US Senators (including 20 Democrats) to thank them for supporting the measure, all should understand that its failure was preordained by Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and quite probably sanctioned by the NRA.
(Side note: Sixty votes – for “cloture” – were required for passage rather than the usual 51 due to a threatened filibuster by perennially anti-gun Sen. Charles Schumer. In the gentile land of the US Senate, threats routinely substitute for real action.)
…
In reality, Reid is vulnerable in his 2010 re-election bid and, consequently, threw the NRA a very small bone.
And what does the NRA get? The appearance of accomplishing something – if not actual passage of the amendment, at least a recorded vote which purports to show who’s “fer ya” and “agin ya.” More action means more NRA members and more money.
Unfortunately, however, the vote shows nothing of the sort and, indeed, undermines your ability to assess which senators are actually pro-gun. The exercise is common, and here’s how it works: Chamber leadership (read that “Democrat”) gives a pass to members in conservative (or vulnerable) districts to vote for a measure which the leadership intends to kill – all the while keeping enough votes against, by Democrats in secure districts, to ensure defeat. They know, after all, that the NRA won’t waste money going after Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein or Frank Lautenberg.
So the result is a vote in which anti-gun Democrats such like Sen. Kay Hagan (D-NC) get to posture as gun rights supporters.
…
As a masterful touch, the amendment failed by just two votes – exactly the number of Republicans who voted against it, giving the appearance that failure was due to lack of Republican unity.
If the drama demonstrates anything, it is that, as Mark Twain put it, “It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.”
To make matters worse, Senate Democrats were all too willing to go along with this charade. Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor (D) and Colorado Senator’s Mark Udall (D) and Mike Bennett (D) were given “permission” to vote in favor of the measure by Senate patriarch Schumer.
From Dana Milbank’s Washington Post column:
How do you outgun the NRA? Very, very carefully.
Mark Pryor knows all about that. The Democratic senator from pro-gun Arkansas was nowhere to be seen on the Senate floor during Wednesday’s showdown over a proposal, championed by the National Rifle Association, that would have gutted state gun-control laws across the nation.
After a morning of angry speeches, a vote was called at high noon. Toward the end of the vote, Pryor entered the chamber through the back door, took a few steps inside, flashed a thumbs-down to the clerk, and retreated as fast and furtively as somebody dodging gunfire.
Several minutes later, the Democrats had racked up more than enough votes to block the proposal. “Are there any senators in the chamber wishing to vote or wishing to change their vote?” the presiding officer inquired.
Pryor burst back in, this time through a side door. “Mr. President!” he called out. “Mr. President!” He stopped in the well to consult with Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), a gun-control advocate who was keeping the whip sheet. Schumer gave Pryor a nod, and the Arkansan — reassured that his vote was not needed to defeat the proposal — changed his vote to an “aye.”
If Pryor wasn’t exactly a profile in courage, keep in mind: The gun lobby has a lot of money and a lot of clout, not to mention a lot of guns. And it doesn’t mind firing off a few rounds to keep lawmakers in line.
…
Only two Republicans went against the gun lobby, but that was enough to leave supporters just short of the 60 votes they needed. The slim margin was no accident: Other Democrats, such as Pennsylvania’s Bob Casey and Colorado’s Mark Udall and Michael Bennet, were said to have been willing to vote “no” if necessary. Twenty minutes after the voting began, Bennet and Udall left the cloakroom together and walked into the chamber. Bennet went to the well to consult with Schumer, who indicated that it was safe for Bennet — a product of D.C.’s St. Albans School — to vote with the NRA. Bennet looked to Udall, who gave an approving nod, and cast his “aye” vote.
Schumer found himself in the unusual position of opposing many of the moderate Democrats he helped bring to office as the head of Senate Democrats’ campaign efforts, including Webb, Casey, Jon Tester (Mont.) and Mark Warner (Va.). “Senator,” a reporter noted to Schumer at a post-vote news conference, “you were staring down some of the folks you were losing on the floor.”
“No. I wasn’t at all,” Schumer replied. “There was no staring down at all — none.”
Gun owners must remember, just because Republicans say they’re pro-gun doesn’t necessarily mean they are.
I am a gun right’s activist. However, one thing that no one seems to be seeing about the thume amendment. It is a violation on the second amendment. So is every other gun law on the books. The constitution is the highest law of the land. Not the supreme court. With that said carrying a concealed weapon, since not expressly forbidden by said is legal. Since no state can make a law overruling the constitution, we are all allowed to cary.
so what do we do ? all become criminals? they seem to be the only ones these so called representitives of our government are helping…we are loseing our rights and our country…
If the “Republicans” who voted for this really are “pro-Constitution,” ala the second amendment, then why don’t you hear about them coming out in support of all the tenth amendment laws and resolutions being passed by various states? . . .
Well . . . forget it . . . we all know the answer to that question.
I do not want to loose my right to own a fire arm
I attended classes and have permit to cary a weapon
I want to be able to protect myself if the occasion arises
if we are all allowed to carry, then why do we have to go thru all this bull shit. then u get a license, with a list of places you cant carry at.If I get arrested for carrying a concealed weapon, will showing the 2nd ammendant to the judge get me off. very confusing
It takes a fool to believe, that taking up guns, is gonna help anything. The only way to fight crime, is to teach kids, from the cradle to the grave, that The Holy Bible, says, Thou Shalt Not Kill, etc….
Funny, all antigunners seem to be people that can afford a full time armed body guard!!!
I will no vote for nor support anyone who votes against my second amendment rights. nor will I vote for the sham supporters of gun rights,
This is what everyone should expect, these people are for the most part socialists and if you don’t make sure you’re voting for a real gun rights candidate you will be voting for a gun controller. Lets let them know they haven’t fooled anyone, and vote these people out!!!I for one am damned tired of this b. s.
The enemy is this Administration, the Democrats and RINO Republicans. Why fear the terrorist when we have this gaggle of crooks to content with…which begs the question, how do you run them off, surely not voting them out of office. That does not seem to happen.
All we need is 1 million people march and take over DC…
Frank you are so right,
I agree with Frank. The constitution allows me to keep and bear arms. They can also have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.
What we really need to do is replace ALL the senators and representatives in congress and keep doing so until they realize exactly who it is they work for.
Congress works for We, the people! They have forgotten this.
This was summed up in the nutshell ” SCUMBAGS”
I used to think we needed a “3rd” party but lately, i’ve come to believe that we actually need a “2nd” party ! The GOP is losing elections all over the place and consequently can’t get vital campaign contrabutions any more. The GOP is dead. Actually, it committed many acts of suicide just as it did with the Thune Amendment. Right now, the GOP is the Democrats ‘useful idiots’ . And the Democrats have a vested interest in maintaining a phony oposition party. Nationwide, the GOP still has half the control of the various Boards of Elections and other similar offices. GOP cridibility in the minds of ordinary Republicans is gone. Perhaps we should all go out and join the Democrat Party and become the pro-gun wing of the Democrat Party. After all, the GOP is dead.
Frank, July 27th, 2009 at 22:55, has it “almost right”. Actually, it is the 14th Amendment that offers concealed carry as it extends the Bill of Rights to both federal and state law. We don’t need no stinkin’ Thune Amendment. What we need is a deep pocket ($$$$$$$) person with standing to get arrested carying in a non-concealed cary state and take any lawsuit to the Supreme Court (sans Sonia).
Regarding Sen. Schumer, I have Jewish friends who are doctors, lawyers, and War Veterans, and all conservative thinking men and women. All see Sen. Schumer as a Liberal Socialist, with the same Facist ideas about “Gun Laws” that were so pervasive during the years that led up to WWII in NAZI occupied Germany. Sen. Schumer has an agenda much like the agenda that Barack Hussein Obama has; to take our guns away and see to it that the 2nd Amendment rights are so emasculated based on their agenda that the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution will be meaningless to honest and honorable Free American citizens. Most of my Jewish friends despise Schumer and say, “Did Schumer, also a Jew, learn anything from Hitler”?. My friends and I all took an oath when we served our country, that was an Oath that meant we would give out lives to protect and serve our country and the Constitution of the USA. That Oath is still in effect! When a friend says to me, “Our grandchildren will have to deal with the actions of those who are in power today”. I say, “That is NOT true”, our grandchildren will say,”Why did your generation allow this to happen and why did you not put up a fight”? I say we fight for our rights legitimately and honorably now. If that does not work, I am prepared to die for the Freedom provided by the Constitution and no one, no government, no person, or any group will change my mind. We are in a fight for our Freedom today, I hope it has a peaceful and positive outcome!
I AM FROM ARKANSAS THANKS FOR THE INFO ON PRYOR.I WISH WE COULD START A GRASS ROOT MOVEMENT AND VOTE ALL THESE BUMS OUT OF OFFICE AND COMPLETY CHANGE WASHINGTON WITH NEW BLOOD IF WE DO NOT AMERICA IS IN DEEP TROUBLE. THANK YOU.
As silly as it may sound, I think logical Republicans need to infiltrate all media and other needed areas in the same sneeky ways librals infiltrated important positions. It seems they kept their mouths shut until it was ripe for the take over.
I’m a gun owner and have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I hope that Thune and every other weasel involved in this scam is exposed, humiliated and voted out by a landslide when their time comes up again for election. These people are elected to vote for and against things in order to benefit the people who elected them. Crooks like this should just be taken out back and shot for deceiving the people of their district. Kick them out.
Frank, you are so right! I for one am sooo sick of the courts usurping power over our constitutional rights!
talk, talk, talk, we will accomplish nothing talking, I have heard my union leaders talk, I have heard my senators and congRess people talk, talk is bull shit. These people are all in bed together and we surely know it by now. Schumer is a commie or a socialist, bayh, likewise, luger and jimmy cARTER ARE TWINS, WAKE UP, wjat is it going to take, we gotta stay home, we gotta march on washington, we gotta sACRIFICE, ANYONE Can talk. but we got to quit voting our party lines, all they do is throw a smoke screen, and we inhale it. newt talks, does nothing, republicans talk, do nothing, either get a grassroots thing and make some sacrifeces or shut up and roll over and play dead. barry sortero, our illustrious pres. without a birth certificate just bought this election for 250 bucks of our money and we did nothing, shit or get off the pot, alan
My wife and I recently joined the NRA, duped into believing that the NRA will be there to protect my rights, as a gun enthusiast, and not just another political entity. It seems to me wherever money and power is involved it is conveniently forgotten, by those receiving it, who gave the money and power in the first place.
With all the self serving nonsense that is going on in Washington today who do we look to for the protection of our right? It seems our legislators won’t because we are tantamount of being “domestic terrorist”.
Individually we have “one” vote, the problem is fear of using the power of the vote, unless of course you’re promised “change” and that you’ll get everything you ever wanted from the government. I don’t or need change. I want HONESTY in government, or is that too simplistic?
The country is not being governed as it was set up to be. It was to be the common person representing the people that voted for them. It has become the professional politician representing him/herself as they can benefit themselves. The only answer I see is getting the professional politicians out, I just wish I had the answer for doing that. There will be no bill of rights if there is no second amendment as that is the one right guaranteeing the the other rights. Trust is being lost in our government from inside and out. Term limits are not such a bad idea but not the complete answer.
Michael Ronsiek, that was a great post and I agree 100% with everything stated.
OUR TWO CONNECTICUT SENATORS, DODD THE INFAMOUS (MR. CHEAP MORTGAGE) AND GOOD OLE JOE JUST GAVE US TWO MORE REASONS NOT TO REELECT THEM.
“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” Joseph Stalin
That is precisely where this Nation stands today. Talking won’t change that.
Thank you, rgodwin! I meant every word! We are now in a fight for our Freedom! Thanks again!
Michael Ronsiek, Sir I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you and any American who will stand up for America and our Freedom. We have fought many wars to keep our Country free and I am one that is not willing to give up my Freedom or my Constitutional Rights! I have found that there have been 2 people who have being willing to die for me-Jesus Christ for my soul and a soldier for my Freedom! I have a concealed weapons permit and I have a Constitutional right to defend myself and my family. I have seen the landscape of America be destroyed before my eyes in the last 6 months and I have never seen America be brought to her knees so quickly! If we plan on keeping America free then the bunch of “THUGS” in Washington must go, the whole place aired out, and new law abiding citizens put in their place! We do not need a 2 party system just honest, home grown Americans who believe in America and her values!! WE are in for the Fight of our lives if we plan on holding on to our Freedom and the Freedom of the children of today! May GOD BLESS THE USA!!
People wanted change? THEY GOT IT!
People should have asked more questions before voting for these fools. I think this happened because the Republicans weren’t doing the jobs they were voted in for. It was a get back @ them for being idiots. Problem is, all of the politicians are idiots and have the attitude of I’m on a higher plane than all of the common low lifes.
Why cant we march right in there as a nation and fire these anti- christ, anti- gun, anti United States socialists? If we truly surround them then why are we playing politics. Did The people who were against Hitler go to their senate to try to remove Hitler? No they took real action.
Great posts, great speaches and great petitions don’t do much but prolong the inevitable. Anarchy
I don,t trust anything that the feds have their hands in.
I am also a firm supporter of States rights, under the 10th Amendment. if the feds past this bill it would of opened lots and lots of door to let in the anti-gunners.
Let the NRA get together with the States and get a mutual agreement developed for cross Sate CWC. I would sleep a lot better.
This is all about world govt.,world religion, world court,the fed. global warming, green b.s…there’s so much to list and not enough time. Our govt. is in bed with the socialists of this world. I used to think all the conspiracy stuff was b.s…it all makes since now…total domination of the human race…take our guns and we’re surely behind the 8 ball…vote em’ out now or store lots of beer, can food and ammo…I wish we could all band together as an army of GOD and not the acorn army that b.o. has…good luck everyone…
As both Reid and Schumer are already considered ‘kiss of death’ pols, meaning I’ll never support anything they sponsor, as they are both filthy trsaitors against the Constitution, I’m not surprised that they’d pull stupid stunts like this. I’m already permanently voting against Democrats, and tend towards independents that support the Bill of Rights. I consider ALL gun control back to the Civil War to be unConstitutional fraud and defective law, and would like to see it all retroactively repealed with the Democrats stripped of funds to remunerate victims of their deceptions. I only support game management laws (hunting seasons and associated laws to maintain game animal herds) as any sort of ‘control’.
I cite the Swiss model as how our nation should handle personal weapons. Everyone should take a safety course (made available at low price) or have served in the military for a couple of years or more, and be held responsible for any weapon in their hands by law. The violent criminals and the terrorists will disappear fast, as killing a violent criminal would not be considered a crime, especially if the criminal(s) were engaged in crime when caught. The result is that the cops have a large pool of deputies to call on at any time and have control of any situation at any time. No more stupid squabbling as to whether it was violating some moronic liberal’s idea of ‘rights’ applied to a criminal – violent criminals have no rights.
The UN can howl all they want, and earn a barge ride back to France while we convert the old UN building into low rent housing. I will not support ‘globalisation’ plans that include personal weapons bans, nor will I regard any idiotic gun laws as constitutional.
What these clowns in Washington (especially the liberal members of the Supreme Court)don`t understand is that the Bill of Rights does not “grant” any rights to anybody! What the Founding Fathers did when they wrote it was to enumerate these rights that we already had and told the Goverment to keep their grubby lunch-hooks off of them! If all the members of the Supreme Court had gone back and studied the “original intent” as they are supposed to, the Heller v DC case would have been 9-0 instead of 5-4. All gun control laws violate the Second Amendment. None of our other rights stop at our State borders so why should our 2nd Amendments one do so? I believe that a law-abiding American citizen should be able to own anything he pleases and be able to transport anywhere in the country with impunity. That`s what it means to be FREE!!!
For Gene Shires (who responded today @ 12:46)
Mr Shires,
The Bible does not say “Thou Shalt Not Kill, etc….” The Bible does say “Thou shall not murder”. The intent was not to handicap people from defending their homes, see Matthew 12:29 & Mark 3:27.
The intent was to prevent intentional murder – as opposed to accidental death at another’s hands. That was actually the reason for the cities of refuge, to protect the ‘manslayer’ from the victim’s family until they could be brought to trial; Numbers 35:6, & 35:12….
While I applaud your intentions to “…teach children the way of peace…”, I would ask that you search the scriptures to find the real meaning; teaching that book is risky business, you really need to be sure of what you are saying.
2nd. amendment? Now watch out for the 1st. amendment. Does anyone remember Germany 1936? That’s where it started. Are ya ready? It’s coming.
When the government fears the people, you have Liberty. When the people fear the government, you have Tyranny. -Thomas Jefferson
Where are we now? Seems like we are being led by our government. The last thing I remember the government was considered servants of the We The People….
I am a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment and have been a strong supporter of the NRA. I have always wondered why Schulmer, Laudenburg, Kennedy, Reid, et al aren’t voted out of office. Aren’t there enough SENSIBLE people in these states to throw them out of office. What I’m hearing is putting doubt in my mind about the NRA. What is my money doing? What is the CCRKBA, 2ND Amendment Foundation, ect. doing? Am I just pouring hard earned money down a rat hole?
When will we arise and cry out that we will no longer live under tyranny or trade our freedoms for a bowl of pottage? I lost my home to fire, and my son in an auto accident and as any, I went through depression and anxiety…so the Veterans Administration decided that as a Viet Nam vet, I had PTSD. Needless to say, I can’t get a concealed carry permit because of their diagnosis. Frank is right…end of story.
Grassroots? did I hear grassroots? I’m also tired of just watching the show as our rights are being robbed or sold away from us.
How would you like a new congress? Folks, all you have to do is take a stand and take action instead of re-acting your rights away.
http://www.givemeliberty.org/
Come on! Let’s do this…don’t let my username fool you… I’m a pussycat
You have to be very smart to edge the fools out that we have allowed into office. Mark my words..
Wow! I am blown away by this revelation. It has left me without words. Evil, Evil, Evil! We DO need all new representatives- from Mayors on up. Grass roots, here I come.
While stationed in Germany, living on the economy, we had many German neighbors we loved and respected. One evening, while we were talking about the events of WWII and the Holocost, we naively asked “How could you let it all happen”? Our neighbors told us “We didn’t know.”
My husband and I (privately) couldn’t and wouldn’t believe it! How could so much go on that the German populace didn’t know about (since it was happening right before their eyes)? Well, it might take me awhille to learn, but I am teachable. Our experiences now are bringing my attitude (at that time) back to haunt me.
Right before our eyes, even while we have advantages (like computers and the net), it is happening here. I feel filthy.
Fred K
Great Post!
I am going to do just as I have always done….I am going to carry to protect myself and my family and the hell with some of the laws in certain states. I will just have to cross that road when it comes but I am not going to be a sitting duck because a bunch of liberals think that licensed concealed carry people are in the same class as convicted criminals. My personal feeling is that a law needs passed to require all people that support gun control to display a 4×8 sign is their front yard that states “THIS HOUSE IS GUN FREE”.
I’v long since suspected that our NRA was a paper tiger and every day I believe it more
All of these politicians are just plain crooks and the “leader” is nothing more then a damn Communist.All of these things that he is doing are simply ment to take our country to the coming one world Gov.When our guns go and with this anti-gun Supreme court nominee,it will happen soon. Its a great shame that people are so in love with this guy that they can’t see what he’s doing. We need to clean house in Washington.Forget about this “party” thing and put some people in there that will work for us regardless of party!
Bob, If we can only remember this in Nov. and vote are way out of this mess.
I think this is despicable & deceitful behavior from our so called Representatives. I copy & pasted & sent emails & snail mail to Senators Warner, Webb (my wonders) & Thune.
You have to understand the democrat thinking. They want to remove all of the rights of the second admendment so that when they get Cap and Trade and Health Care passed, and then we wake up to the realization that we are taxed to the point of open revolution, we won’t have any guns to fight with. Believe me, this is what they are thinking. If the Democrats get their way, we will have to fight to take our country back.
The Bible does not say, “Thou shalt not kill.” It says, “Thou shalt not murder.” The difference in meaning is obvious. Killing in war or in self-defense is not a sin.
Washington and all the state capitals, pay attention and don’t miss this. American citizens will not disarm, and we will not be disarmed. Count on it. Sixty million armed US citizens cannot be bullied or oppressed by any government, and the Second Amendment protects our gun rights. Who would try to force us to disarm? The police? The military? The people who make up our law enforcement and military forces
ARE CITIZENS, TOO! So all the Schumers, Pelosis, Reids, Franks and other congressional freaks can sputter and spit all they want, but we will not disarm, period.