ATF and FBI fighting turf war
It was revealed to congress that the notoriously anti-gun Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) are in the middle of an ugly inter-departmental turf war.
In testimony to Congress FBI director Robert Mueller admitted that the turf war between law enforcement agencies he once claimed was resolved is still interfering with the work of both agencies.
From the Associated Press:
FBI Director Robert Mueller conceded to Congress Wednesday that turf fights persist between his agents and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Mueller was asked at a Senate hearing about a report by The Associated Press on Tuesday that government investigators had found persistent feuding between the two law enforcement agencies, despite repeated efforts by the Justice Department to settle the conflict.
A draft report by the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General, an internal watchdog, found the conflicts have led agents to race each other to crime scenes, withhold information from each other and refuse to train together.
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, criticized the Justice Department’s supervision of the FBI and ATF and said the report raises serious concerns about the problems between the agencies.
Grassley asked the FBI director if the problems between the two agencies have been fixed, as they had claimed last year.
“They have not all been resolved,” said Mueller. “As the inspector general points out, there are still issues.”…
The inspector general’s draft report found a major part of the problem stems from a lack of clear direction from the Justice Department, which has responsibility for settling disagreements between the two offices.
Grassley complained that the agencies told him last year that they had resolved their disputes, and yet the report indicates such fighting continues. He also said the Justice Department has failed to answer questions on the subject.
The department owes it to taxpayers, Grassley argued, to settle their disputes and work together.
Mueller said the two sides work together well most of the time, but there are exceptions.
The inspector general’s report is still being updated and it is not clear when the final version will be released publicly.
The draft version said the conflicts can delay investigations and highlighted a number of incidents, including:
• In December 2008 the FBI protested a local prosecutor’s request to use the ATF to investigate a blast that killed a local bomb technician in Woodburn, Ore.
• In March 2008 both agencies responded to a bombing near a U.S. military recruiting station in Times Square. ATF sought to have the suspect charged immediately in what the inspector general called a “race to the courthouse” to take the case from the FBI, which was already pursuing the suspect in a different state.
• In November 2007 the FBI was notified of a pipe bomb found in a truck at the Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona and claimed jurisdiction as a terrorism case. Notified several hours later, ATF disputed any connection to terrorism in a confrontation in front of local law enforcement officials.
The answer seems pretty clear to me, abolish the BATFE and leave the real police work — like stopping the drug trade, shutting down gangs and arresting rapists — to the FBI.
Originally founded in the late 1920’s, the BATFE was founded as part of the Treasury Department and didn’t even have arrest rights. It was then passed around like a hot-potato, from the Treasury Department to the FBI to the Justice Department.
The BATFE’s long history of excessive force and perjury in their unholy persecution of gun owners should put them outside of the law rather than as the laws titular “enforcers.”
If Congress wants to get serious about law enforcement it should abolish the BATFE and leave real police work to the FBI.
Lot of waste of tax payer monies, looks like the responsible party would be the justice dept.
With all the problems, even the qualification of the president are in question.
Is there still a justice dept and what are their dutys and obligation’s to the American public that pays there wages.
Seems like the samo,samo, if it feel good and sounds good do it, if it don’t less take the wife on a million dollar night out, (at tax payers expense) to chicago and see a show are what ever.
We are dedicated to transparency, what does that mean.
h.d.
The only reason the second amendment was put into place as part of our constitution was to ensure that the citizens of our country had the ability to defend themselves against an over bearing government. Our country was formed by people who left an overbearing govenment and they wanted to be sure we had the ability to fight a government that got out of control and imposed irrational actions against the citizens. Sound like anything you see happening today? Just look at the current government trying to redefine the second amendment to state only milita had the right to bear arms. Totally false and the opposite of what the second amendment was designed to accomplish. Be careful of what the current government is trying to feed you as CHANGE. It is becoming increasingly had to swallow.
I’m sick and tired of my constitutional rights being underminded by a thug agency. The BATFE is just a criminal organization legalized by the Tyrannical government that now runs our country. They fit right in with ACORN, and should be withdrawn from taxes, and eventually shut down. Go get a real job.
It’s just not a war. Looking at the wider perspective, the BATF leadership always has been antigun. Now the situation is worsened because anti-gun Obama selected another very anti-gun stooge to run the BATF. I side 1000% with the FBI and CIA anytime. They both take the oath to support the Consitution. Oaths are completely meaningless to this Administration and his lackeys.
I agree whole heartedly that the BATFE should be abolished. It seems that this country has gone crazy with police power, look at the IRS even they have arrest powers, CRAZY.
I agree with Michael R. Smith. All those agencies that are not defined in the Constitution as direct responsibilities of the Federal Governement should be disbanded, all the employees fired and not allowed to move to other agencies.
I also agree that the BATFE should be disbanded. It served a purpose once but is not needed any longer. The FBI needs to be given some strong orders regarding their playing in politics instead of doing their job and only their job.
In Short, we need to reduce the Federal government to the bare minimum for Defense, interfacing with foreign powers, treaties, etc. and the rest left to the States.
Will take a while because Social Security responsibilities, and Medicare (both unconstitutional but must be phased out over time.)
BATF for the most part is here to “collect revenue” and deal with the illegal activity of such materials that command those taxes. Obviously things have changed since 911 but not limited to 911. Thus now we have the TTB, Trade and Tax Bureau, a quasi arm of the ATF to collect and watch out for the Governments “sin tax” money. The previous ATF got so busy with guns and explosives etc. the need for the TTB came about. What will happen next, my guess is they are still going to want their money, but whatwith Mack Daddy long leg Obama in the meat house now, the left wants IT ALL. The left has been waiting for this day to come for 40 years. They are well organized and well funded. Vote the bastards out of office !
IM WITH YOU, WILLIAM CLEVELAND
I emailed BATFE about the full auto law concerning worn and/or defective disconnectors in semi-auto rifles about the man who was convicted and jailed. BATFE did answer by quoting the law, any firearm that would fire more than one shot with one pull of the trigger. There was no part of the law that would excuse the firearm from being worn or defective and needing repair by a gunsmith. I petitioned thru an emal to Pres. Bush to commute the sentence and pardon the man. No reply from Bush. BATFE has my name, address and phone number if they want to visit me.
And yes the BATFE should be disbanded , fired , kicked the hell out , along with all the other crooked cronies . The FBI is well equipped to protect the American public .
The BATF is a Gestapo with hobnail boots and they are non-functionsal unit that should be terminated and disbanded now and forever. They perform absolutely no worth while function and they are a second rate organization. Leave the police work to the real police not these guys…
The BATFE and the FBI both should be abolished, along with many other govt. agencies that are out of control. Time to get back to Constitutional small govt., the way it was intended.
Obama & his Lemmings need a group of “law enforcement” people who know
how to and not to worry about the legality of what they do. They lie
to the courts, police depts., etc. with no fear of being blamed if any
thing goes wrong. “Daddy Obama” will step up and defend his Lemmings
to make sure they will operate as his private police force. At this
point, they will act at Obama’s direction.
Just like ACORN doing exactly what Obama wants them to do. Anyone who
thinks Obama isn’t the CEO of ACORN is mistaken. That’s why they are
still in business and will remain so!!
I agree dump the BATF the jack booted thugs and use the real police…FBI or local cops when something is a local issue.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms does not – in my opinion – include explosives: i.e., bombs. They were established to regulate those three areas, primarily when alcohol was illegal. They are NOT equipt to investigate anything and are not meant to be supplimental police forces. Shut them down. Let the FBI do its work and get rid of the Boy Scouts from ATF who are getting in their way.
“If Congress wants to get serious about law enforcement it should abolish the BATFE and leave real police work to the FBI.”
Then these criminals would be given jobs in other government agencies to wreak their vile agenda there. Maybe there are already some of them over at CPSC preparing to “SWAT” people selling old toys at yard sales, or failing to dispose of the toys in approved HAZMAT disposal facilities.
Think I’m kidding? Even the USDA has its own machine gun brandishing and attack helicopter equipped SWAT team.
I was arrested (kidnapped) on private property on a bogus county warrant by a federal firewood guard of the USDA Forest Service! No actual warrant existed – he used the jail computer to print up an unsigned fake warrant after he clapped me in jail. I was released when I filed a petition for habeas corpus. The county “judge” (unsworn woman lawyer) did make sure to hold me for the ten day limit established by the US supreme court (either release the petitioner or hold habeas hearing within ten days of filing).
The national hero/god A. Lincoln established the principle that bayonets and lead overrule moldy scraps of parchment. The constitutions are trundled out when they do not threaten the status quo, but ignored when they get in the way of the agenda. Still, for common crime, they are better than what the rest of the world has.
Our politicos DO uphold their oath to “support and defend” the constitution – it is supported on a pedestal and defended by bulletproof glass and armed guards.
bama & his Lemmings need a group of “law enforcement” people who know
how to and not to worry about the legality of what they do. They lie
to the courts, police depts., etc. with no fear of being blamed if any
thing goes wrong. “Daddy Obama” will step up and defend his Lemmings
to make sure they will operate as his private police force. At this
point, they will act at Obama’s direction.
Frankie B.
Sorry, don’t usually post, but when you wrote:
“I side 1000% with the FBI and CIA anytime. They both take the oath to support the Consitution(sic),”
I just had to pipe up.
I wonder, which part of the constitution were they upholding when the CIA originally developed Osama Bin Laden as an asset in Afghanistan just a few decades ago? Maybe Osama turned on them and they just didn’t see it coming? If so, I’d call the CIA incompetent at the least: to have a prized asset in a long-fought turf war go rogue on you. Then, long after he became public enemy #1, the CIA visited him the hospital just weeks before he staged the most elaborate attack on US soil ever conceived. How is it that more than a year before the attacks the FBI, NSA, and CIA said that they were ‘listening into every conversation’ Osama Bin Laden had, but then after the attacks they said…’oops…we didn’t know it was coming.’ That, to me, is the kind of excuse you can fertilize a field with. You should look into a little more of these organizations’ dealings because breaking eggs to make an omelet isn’t in the constitution.
All this BATFE bashing is probably rightly justified, but puhleeese, the FBI and CIA have developed very strange ways of interpreting their oaths too. They are fair fodder.
bama & his Lemmings need a group of “law enforcement” people who know
how to and not to worry about the legality of what they do. They lie
to the courts, police depts., etc. with no fear of being blamed if any
thing goes wrong. “Daddy Obama” will step up and defend his Lemmings
to make sure they will operate as his private police force. At this
point, they will act at Obama’s direction.william from a ccna practice exams
This whole Homeland Security having 3 agencies under its wing, then having IRS, BATFE, FBI Etc. Etc. Etc. will never work! We need to quit working separately and do it like the Brits: MI-5 eqauls every agency above State & local that operates within the continent of Britain and MI-6 that operates every agency outside. That way nobody is competing for anything but one budget, training etc. Until that time, we will continue to have to put up with this childish inter/intra service rivalry.
I trust you would not have reservations if I put up a part of this site on my univeristy blog?
As long as proper credit is given the the National Association for Gun Rights, go for it.