Six year old suspended for hand gesture
… no not that hand gesture, one much more benign.
A Michigan boy was suspended for making a gun gesture with his hand.
That’s right, hoplophobia and Big Brother Nanny-ism has reached a new low.
Erin Jammer, said her son, Mason, was just playing around when he made the gesture Wednesday, the Grand Rapids Press reported.
“I do think it’s harsh for a six-year-old. He’s six and he just likes to play. Maybe what you could do is take his recess away. He’s only six and he doesn’t understand any of this,” Erin Jammer said.
But officials at Jefferson Elementary School said the behavior made other students uncomfortable, and they suspended Mason for the remainder of the week, the paper reported.
Anti-gun activism is rampant at all level of government. Gun owners must continue to be vigilant, and counter these sort of outrageous actions.
Want your voice to be heard?
You can e-mail Jefferson Elementary School Principle Matt Vogel at: mvogel@ioniaschools.org
I am sick to death of these loons that are supposedly instructing children in proper ways of behavior. What has happened to common sense. No wonder the nation is in melt down mode. We have way to many idiots and I emphasize IDIOTS in “responsible places”.
This was my response to Principal Vogel:
Mr. Vogel,
What sort of moron are you? When I was in Grade School, we played “Cowboys & Indians” at recess. Finger guns, with thumb hammers were the norm. One day, you were a cowboy, the next day, you were an Indian. Nobody ever died, or got hurt, (except for the occasional “who put that wall there?”) and we all, “the cowboy and the Indians”, stayed friends through High School, and beyond.
You over-reacted to a situation that you helped escalate, and you have no business being a Principal, or any other type of leader, until you have that nasty case of political correctness purged from your body.
If that were my son that you tossed out of school, I’d sue. Not only you, but the entire School Board as well, individually, and collectively, to force them to remove you from the school system.
Sorry. I side with the 6 YEAR OLD, and his parents. You owe them an apology, AT A MINIMUM.
This is an outrage and reaks of liberalism, once again, trying to control our communties and schools. Suspension is so overboard. Our our teachers so weak that can’t handle discipline in the classroom? It sounds like it made the progressive teacher uncomfortable, more than the students.
The Principal of this school is the one who should be suspended by the parents who pay his salary.
here is a full grown man that went to school, Got a degree and became an educator. Where is his education.
Does he hunt, fish, go camping or think about protecting his own family ??? Whatever happened to
the cowboys and indians around the neighborhood.?? I am really sad and outraged at teachers who
can’t think like human beings.. God bless our troops (An Old Vet)
Sounds like the boy was being a boy, overkill by the school and this is way out of control. The school principal should be suspended for stupidity. All you people who agree with what happened, you are also the problem. This little boy did nothing wrong and was just playing like little boys do. He don’t even know why he is not in school and I hope the parents don’t tell him why he gets to stay home for a few days. Come to Iowa and we will show you all how to play cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians like kids do. This is crazy! Our leaders are wrong and way too liberal. Go back to teaching the basics and not all this social junk. No wonder our school systems are failing our kids.
Looks like another case of indoctrination of our children. Basically, the victim is the poor Mason. The other children were taught by the school to be offended, just another way to pass on anti-gun mentality. Let’s start with conditioning the children early on. Folks, pull your kids from public schools. There are options (homeschooling and privite–we do both) out there! If not, you make sure you know exactly what your children are being taught, and ask questions daily about topics discussed by the teachers.
Unfortunately, I don’t find it so hard to believe the paranoia caused by this. It’s a sad commentary of the way the anti-gun advocates and the media have manipulated the public at large. We live in a country that is ever changing, lately it seems not for the better, but to punish a 6 year old for harmless play is obsurd. There is not more than a handful of us who don’t remember playing ‘Cops and Robbers’, ‘Army’ and ‘Cowboys and Indians’ to name a few when we were children icluding those same idiots who just suspended a child for doing what comes naturally, playing. Saying it made others uncomfortable is just a way of saying “we needed an excuse”. I wish I had more money to fight this kind of Idiocy. Thank God we have the NAGR and others to help. We need to give them what we can before we lose what freedoms we have left. What is going on in this country makes me feel sad and angry at the same time. And in a way glad, that my elders did not live to see the country they loved being guilded by such stupidity. REV
How stupid,and were the ones to blame,we put them there just like the elected officials we put in office,and Ben that email don’t work and i’m all for a Republic of Texas!!!
MY letter to Mr. Vogel:
Hi, Mr. Vogel,
I have read the news. Now I’m reading a piece by one of the groups whose email I subscribe to, giving some detail about the kid who was suspended for a WEEK (or the rest of the week) because he made his hand into the symbol of a pistol. You have GOT to be kidding, right? Did you personally order this 6-year-old to be suspended???
I was born and raised in (smalltown), Michigan. I am ASHAMED to point out to colleagues that this event occurred in my state. It’s embarrassing. You are embarrassing. I would hope that you do the right thing, and apologize for your reprehensible behavior in this matter, both to the mother of this child, as well as the school in general with a press release or something similar.
If my kid (who is 5) were to be suspended for this sort of thing you could GUARANTEE that he would be back in school, and that you would have a federal lawsuit slapped on you so quick your head would spin.
It has gotta suck that you can’t respond to letters like this, doesn’t it? I’d be publicizing your reply. What CAN you say when you have exhibited unbounded stupidity, after all? Not much, I’m guessing.
Such a small thing brought on by A SMALL person. The Small preson is the Teacher and should say I am a BAD Teacher and not di it agan
To the idiot who suspended the six year old boy for the hand gesture, I can now really understand the disgraceful condition of our schools.
It’s the teaching staff and their so called leaders who should be suspended ………….INDEFINATELY! Without pay.
Vogles email is wrong. I tried to send this same message to him, but it came back as no such address.
I hope you all e-mailed the Principle,,,,,,,,,
Welcome to the world of the National Education Association.
Dear Sir:
If what I hear is true that a six year old made a cops and robbers display of a finger gun and was suspended then I think you should be investigated for child abuse.
A child of six is under the age of accountability in every state. That means he does not have the wherewithal yet to know right from wrong. Your embarrassing him for a gesture of ANY kind may have the exact opposite effect that you intended. He will no doubt learn other gestures now because you over-reacted. I urge you to find and take a finger pointing safety class immediately!!
~~Thanks very much,
Dave Brown
When is the real issue hear going to be addressed Mr. Vogel? You picked on a little 6 year old boy because you don’t have the guts to face the real problem. That is teaching gun safety in the schools. As a Veteran of Viet Nam (2 tours), lisenced to carry a hand gun (for past 39 years), a lisenced hunter safety & gun safety instructor for the D.N.R. of Michigan, a life member of N.R.A., a member of M.C.R.G.O., and a Merit Badge Councilor for Shot gun & Rifle for the Boy Scouts of America (for past 55 years)I feel that I am qualified in this matter. If people are tought to respect fire arms, know how they operate, how to make them safe, and yes how deadly they can be we wouldn’t have to be putting up with fools like you. I was tought at the age of 4 years old about guns and had my very first gun at the age of 4 a 22 rifle which I still have and I’m 65 years old now. I have never had a close call, or an injury in all the 45 years I have been teaching gun safety. Doctors kill more people than gun owners do or maybe Mr Vogel you didn’t do YOUR home work so you would know that? We played cowboys & indians, cops & robbers on the play ground at school, using our fingers, sticks, or whatever and do you know that nobody got shot? People like you that are in the educational field should know that educating people about guns is more important than making an example out of a 6 year old boy for pointing his finger at someone, then stupidly say that it upset the rest of the students. I’ll bet that 3/4 of the students didn’t see it happen or know anything about it until you showed them you didn’t really have a back bone. If we don’t teach children at a young age to have respect for them selves, for authority, for other people which also means their parents, teachers, police, and the list can go on and on then we have failed to do our job as adults. Those that are so blind will not see and Mr. Vogel you fall right into the middle of this! If you were in my school district I would do everything within the law to make sure you were put out of the teaching perfession and never be allowed back in. How does it feel to get up every morning and look at a fool in the mirror?
It seems to be unanimous in agreement that you, Vogel, greatly over-reacted to the point of sheer stupidity in suspending this little boy. I am surpriesd that you did not insist on a psych-evaluation before he could return to school.
I particularly liked the comments about “hands in his pocket” misconstrued as a “concealed weapon”, and “it’s a good thing this very young man didn’t have a silencer on the end of his finger or better yet all should be thankful none of his companions pulled on his finger to induce sound effects.” Both show the obsurdity of your overreaction.
On a more serious note, I can only imagine the harassing “attention” this little boy is going to have to “endure” from his classmates, that will certaninly ensue when he does return to school. I am equally certain, there will be no “support” or “protection” for him regarding the onslaught of child abuse/cruelty by the other children, from you. Kids love to “kick” you while you are down.
I find no logic in your “punishment” so I am curious as to what “duty” you felt had to be achieved in making an “example” of this little boy. Was this personally motivated? I doubt seriously if “guns” have anything to do with your attack on this little boy.
By virtue of your unthinking hostile action towards this boy, you are, at best, forcing his parents to take him out of this school and place him elsewhere for his own safety and from his classmates onslaught; hopefully, where he can get a proper well-rounded education, without fear of attending school.
Otherwise, as this terrorizing “bullying” begins, because you are not allowed to defend yourself [no fighting in school allowed], continues you are placed on some anti-depressant which creates mental instability [a proven fact], and ends up as a Virginia Tech incident.
Good job Vogel, you have just created the scenario for a future hostile event. You should be so proud!
That is a bunch of crap. Glad to find out that a finger is bad.
I sent the following to the listed e-mail address. I submit it as a sample that might be used. Civility, and proper language hit home better than cursing, etc. As sent:
I respectfully suggest that you apologize to Erin Jammer and his family, and reinstate him to class. This “no tolerance policy” garbage has REALLY got to end. A SIX year old, of all things, and a simple hand gesture with NOTHING in it, and you go ballistic (pardon the pun). What good is this when you punish a child for something he cannot understand? Please try to act like you have more maturity than he has.
Ur kiddin rite..everyone really needs too take a chill pill..I do it every day im on the road and sumone cuts in front of my 18wheeler and have too make a quick responce not too hit them, because their not educated properly on how too drive around big rigs..So why not educate the child..after all im sure he is watchin the same dam cartoons we all watched as a kid with sammy trying too shot a rabbit..GET A LIVE PEOPLE PLEASE..
They exploited a six year old child just to satisfy there anti- gun agenda, and they think that’s acceptable,to me that’s no different than child abuse.
Mr Vogel and out of control Liberal Staff,
The suspension of the 6 year old is absolutely rediculous! Public schools and the teachers labor unions are the reasons why my wife and I Home School our children. Your actions are absurd. Would you have suspended this 6 year old boy if he had been using hand gestures to blow kisses at other students? In a lunatic liberals mind, like yours, that simple gesture could be misconstrued as a type of sexual harassment. Michigans problems as a state can easily be traced to the Liberal indoctrination that begins with young people at the public school level. We will definitely use this rediculous incident as a teaching lesson for our kids as to how far out of control local forms of government can get in the simplest forms of local government. My wife and I used to wonder what our kids may or may not be missing by not attending public school. Thanks to you people we have decided that we are sparing our kids the stupidity that tax payer money buys from Liberals in the school system. Please do that school a favor and resign.
After hearing about this, I coundn’t help but point my finger @ my head and and pull the trigger, I now have been suspended from reality and have moved to a different universe, where I am going to be indoctrinated into a sensitivity class so that I will be able to see the error of my ways. Oh joy!
this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve have ever heard !
We used to use sticks for guns and play cowboys and Indians and use cap guns that looked “real” by today’s standards and were taught by our parents never point a real gun at anybody
unless you need to use it. I’m now 64 year old vet and nobody got hurt,why, because we had parents that did there job. and didn’t want “big brother” to do there job as a parent for them. He’s only being a kid for crying out loud ! like the guy said eek a little boy with a finger…..run run run !
This is totally ridiculous. What’s worse is that the principal who suspended him probably advocates tweens at her school putting condoms on cucumbers for sex ed.
Are you kidding me??? Your grandfather & probly father used those “hand gestures” to play cowboys & indians or cops & robbers! Should they have been convicted of a “CRIME”?
Suspending that kid for something like pretending his finger is a gun barrel is outright insane!!! No wonder this country is coming apart at the seams and there were enough imbeciles stupid enough to put a lowlife communist in the White House. The public schools have become insane asylums and the ones running the schools are the ones who ought to be in straight jackets!!!
When I was growing up we used cap-pistols that made a real popping sound while playing cowboys. Guess these folks would have had a problem playing with us.
When I was about 10 yrs old I had my first BB gun and now I’m 76 and still have guns and never shot anyone. Something must be wrong.
Have you shown this much interest in this young mans education ??? I think not!!!I’m 59, and I do this
act daily to people I know, and don’t know, and as of yet, from the hundreds into thousands I’ve NEVER
had a negative responce, NEVER! This is as BAD as the First grader from around NY some 10 to 12 years
ago. He was EXPELLED for the remainder of the school for kissing a classmate (female) on the cheek. That
young man had to visit a Shrink to work on his behavior, and he probably hates females now. That story
died rather quickly.
NOTE: If other students really have a problem with it, The School has all of the means to provide MENTAL
HEALTH SUPPORT to them. The Staff at this school should also take advantage of this service!
You’re so very, very wrong!
Have you shown this much interest in this young mans education ??? I think not!!!I’m 59, and I do this
act daily to people I know, and don’t know, and as of yet, from the hundreds into thousands I’ve NEVER
had a negative response, NEVER! This is as BAD as the First grader from around NY some 10 to 12 years
ago. He was EXPELLED for the remainder of the school for kissing a classmate (female) on the cheek. That
young man had to visit a Shrink to work on his behavior, and he probably hates females now. That story
died rather quickly.
NOTE: If other students really have a problem with it, The School has all of the means to provide MENTAL
HEALTH SUPPORT to them. The Staff at this school should also take advantage of this service!
You’re so very, very wrong!
Dear Mr. Vogel,
I am disturbed at the report I’ve received that you have suspended a six-year old boy for making a gun sign with his hand. Is there no common sense left in America? Surely, as a boy you did the same thing, as most boys do while playing. Teens make the same sign while posing as a James Bond, all in fun of course. What’s the point in being a child if you can’t play without ridiculous penalties being imposed by hyper-vigilant adults with gun paranoia? By the way, the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees that child’s right to do so. Freedom of expression is both a human right and a Constitutional right guaranteed to ALL Americans regardless of age or location. It also guarantees the right to possess fire arms, whether real or make believe. Shame on you for being a grade school bully to an innocent child!!! Are you a school administrator or tyrannical fool? That child deserves your apology, as does his family.
As a school administrator who I’m sure is quite well paid, most parents would hope you would be able to display a small sense of fair play and common sense in dealing with these matters. Zero tolerance does not equate with Zero Intelligence… but that seems to be the case more often than not throughout our nation by “authoritarians” like yourself. Use the brains God gave you to judge appropriately, not rashly or harshly, according to the circumstance. Otherwise, you may find yourself on the other end of the other more commonly used finger sign by parents who are fed up with antics like yours.
Again, shame on you!
I would like to say that I like so many others I to played mostly Cowboys & Indians, Cops & Robbers and was never diagnosed with scitzophrenic mental problems. I also did send Mr. Vogel an E-Mail basicly telling him what an uneducated jack — he is when it comes to little boys and children. I totally agree that he needs to resign or be fired which ever comes first or sooner
Mr Vogel is an idiot, as are most gun hating liberals. One of the biggest gun hating liberals is President Obama. However, he is also the one who said one should serve their country and the first institution he cited was the Military. What does Mr Vogel think they use in the Military? Here is a kid who may well have been thinking of just such a career. Not anymore though, he has just been traumatized, by an overreaching, overreacting moron. If this country had been founded and led by people like Mr. Vogel we would be called the United States of England or worse yet goose stepping and raising our hand to zeig heil! How do we continue to let idiots like this teach our children.
It is a good thing his little GUN was not loaded for the bad socialist/jerk to react to. He should have gotten the middle finger!!!
SO MUCH FOR THE LEFT WING DINGBATS.
Maybe suspention wasn’t enough. Maybe they should have locked him up in juvie for the remainder of the school year. We can’t have 6 yr old terrorist running the streets, they may hurt someone with that 2 1/2″ long finger. Morons running the schools of America!
DOES THE WORD ASSININE MEAN ANY THING TO THESE PEOPLE? HEY IF IT WILL HELP I KNOW WHERE THEY CAN GET A GOOD DEAL ON A JOHN DEERE TRACTOR. WHY? YOU ASK,SO THEY CAN PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR DERIERS. MAYBE THEN THEY CAN SEE THE LIGHT, AND SMELL THE ROSES. NOT BE BLINDED BY ALL THAT BULLCRAP, OR HAVE THEIR NOSES FILLED WITH IT EITHER. ALTHOUGH IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE. THEY COULD HAVE CONFISCATED HIS FINGER FOR THE GOOD OF AMERICANS EVERY WHERE.
This is really scary to me. Pointing a finger.
I am 70 and don’t understand perhaps this principal should get his hands out of his britches and see if they still point. What a sick world we live in.
To david-ben ariel,
why in hell should this child have been scolded, he did absolutely nothing wrong. I
would think we dcannot defend America because we would be pointing real guns, you are as bad as the idiot teacher. We have to start going to school board meetings,
getting ourselves elected, and firing these idiots. take your school back, run for the school board, the only reason these people are hired as teachers is because we do nothing, scloded my butt,
alan nelson
You have got to be kidding! A six year old is not cognizant of anything except that he was playing. Teachers have become obsessed with finding evil in everything. Why don’t those same teachers spend some time teaching things like reading, writing, and arithmetic and quit looking for evil around every corner. Try teaching them about the US Constitution and what it means to us and the rights it guarantees us!
If they take away all the guns from the people who comply, it won`t stop what they are seeing now. A person who would kill someone else wouldn`t think twice about having an illegal gun. They probably would still be able to get a blackmarket gun. Congressmen who are against regular citizens having guns should be placed on an anti-intellectual list(A STUPID LIST).
I guess they want home invasions to escalate like they did in Australia. This is probably what the above is about. Just because a kid plays like he is using a gun dosen`t come close to what he will do when he comes of understanding age. (And they live among us).
This is the email I sent to the principal. I suggest many others send emails also:
Dear Mr Vogel,
I am sure, as a learned professional, you feel you did the right thing in stepping in and suspending the six year old for pointing his finger in such a suggestive, menacing and dangerous way.
As a former mental health-care professional, I will tell you right now, you were utterly and completely wrong in your handling of the situation. What you did was traumatize a little boy for what is an innocent hand gesture, used in play, that has been around for longer than you have.In fact, I suggest that your actions traumatized this little boy to a far greater extent than he did to any other student, if in fact, they were affected in any way at all. Perhaps, you have watched too many Dirty Harry movies. You sure made that little boys day, didn’t you.
I totally agree that this is going way overboard. Are they going to take all the play time games away from us. WE played those games and it didnt bother anyone. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. I have never heard of a finger going off and killing anyone. This boy should never have been suspended from school for being a kid and playing a game. One of the oldest games in history probably.
After my earlier post at 10:43am I thought maybe we should give Mr. Vogel some wiggle room. I thought of this scenario
Barring some insite,such as this 6yr old is a bully with a reputation of carrying out acts of violence and the gesture was taken/intended as a real threat. Not that he would shoot,but that he intended to punish/wreck vengence. i.e. that the gesture actually caused grief to those being bullied ( A threat of things to come ) In that case ,the discipline is being administered for the unspoken ( but clearly a threat ) , represented by the gesture and NOT the gesture itself.
Without qualifications ,to say he was sent home for pointing his finger like a gun ,reeks of supidity. If however, our first assumption is/was correct…then again
Mr Vogel shame on you
I certainly have a finger I would like to give Mr. Vogel.
Suspending the six years old boy is ridiculous, instead you he shaould have been told not to do it again. Officals at the Jefferson Elementary school should know better, teach the right thing and not punish. Criminals have a day in court but this boy did not have any.
My wife, a Montewsori educator, was appalled by tis story, as was I.
Common sense has been sacrified on the altar of “zero tolerance” and “poliitcal correctness”, both being substitutes for thought.
The only way the litle boy’s finger could have been a threat would be if there was a booger on the end of his finger!
Seriously, if nothing had been said, the other kids would not have been “uncomfortable”. We live in perilous times — and not just from criminals…
Matt Vogel,
Unless I hear it from the children themselves, I don’t believe that you have any credibility. I think that you are trying to put words in their mouths. And regardless of what the other children may say, I believe in the First Amendment Freedom Of Speech. I believe that if this boy had spoken blasphemy or vulgarity, you would have defended his right to do so. But, if he is exercising his Second Amendment Rights, or if he is speaking out in observance of Christian doctrine, I believe that you, and everyone like you, would punish him to the full extent of your imagined authority. I too, must say “Shame on you”!
Daniel J. Willard
I don’t understand what is happening in our time, but I remember when cops and our military used to be our hero’s. Our children and grandchildren are going to grow up being ashamed of the people who protect us and keep us safe! We lost respect for our President’s, congress men and women alike long ago when not being honest, and not taking care of the american people the way they are supposed to (not just themselves) became the way of there lives. If our youth do not have someone or some idea to respect, look up to, and want to grow up like, what are they going to end up like? We need to let kids be kids, they will not grow up with good strong thoughts if we don’t quit messing around with there minds!!!!!!! This poor little guy probably thinks he was bad, and has no idea why he is in trouble. This is amazing, and the school should be ashamed! Who is the adult and who is the child???????
I’m so disappointed to admit that I live in this city, grew up here, and it has become too big for its britches when we have too many liberals like this Mr. Vogel, living here amongst us.(shudder…)
Well, they say the pendulum swings all the way before coming back again, I hope its coming soon!